Cedole e dividendi percepiti all'estero

[Massimo S.]

Se non mi sbaglio, da quest'anno le cedole (e mi sembra anche i dividendi) percepite all'estero saranno tassate sia all'estero che in Italia. Cioè in pratica se percepisco 1.000 euro di cedole su obbligazioni in un conto a Lugano, la banca di Lugano mi tratterrà l'imposta secondo l'aliquota svizzera e, non avendo più io diritto al credito d'imposta, dovrò pagare anche il 12,50% sul cosiddetto netto frontiera.

E' esatto quello che ho scritto? E non è incostituzionale questa doppia tassazione?

E poi, cosa potrebbe essere meglio fare?
1) Pagare e soffrire in silenzio.
2) Pagare e presentare ricorso.
3) Non pagare, attendere la cartella di pagamento dall'amministrazione finanziaria e presentare ricorso.

Grazie per chi volesse aiutarmi (che poi al 99% sarà Fabio Galletti ).

Ciao. Massimo

[FaGal]

No. Non è corretto. Il discorso, se ho ben inteso dove vuoi andare a parare, vale solo per le cedole. Ti riferisci alla tassazione transfrontaliera degli interessi?

[FaGal]

http://www.finanzaonline.com/forum/s...d.php?t=571637

[FaGal]

Per il discorso dei dividendi ti rimando alla guida che ho postato poche ore fa. Per gli interessi, dal 1 luglio 2005 entra in vigore ...
http://www.ubs.com/1/i/wealth_mgmt_ww/esd/faq.html

[Massimo S.]

Ho dato uno sguardo sia ai link che hai postato sia al pdf relativo alla tassazione dei dividendi, e ti ringrazio molto per l'aiuto. Comunque è un bel po' complicato, e mi sa che devo stamparmi un po' di roba e studiarmela con calma.

Il problema è che ho diversi conti in Italia ed all'estero (non sono ricco, faccio solo il trader a tempo pieno ), e per i conti con intermediari esteri sono ovviamente in regime dichiarativo. Fino a qualche tempo fa, avevo solo capital gain (redditi diversi). Ma ultimamente mi sono anche stati accreditati dei dividendi in America. La cifra è minima (ho da poco ricevuto la certificazione per una trattenuta di $0.90!!!), ma in futuro potrebbe crescere.

Quello che più mi preoccupa, invece, perché non ho ancora bene capito come funziona, è la gestione fiscale delle cedole derivanti da conti esteri. Da pochi mesi ho aperto un conto in Svizzera, ed ho tra l'altro autorizzato la banca a trasmettere al fisco italiano tutte le informazioni che ritengono opportuno, e su quel conto farò solo trading di obbligazioni. Quindi avrò diverse cedole (e ratei per vendite prima della scadenza). Mah. Fra qualche giorno mi accrediteranno la prima cedola e vedrò se applicano trattenute o meno.

Grazie ancora per l'aiuto.

Ciao. Massimo

[FaGal]

Per il momento no..dal 1 luglio 2005

[FaGal]

Però mi dovrebbere arrivare una lista di bonds svizzeri per capire quali saranno tassati...

Per info

gallettifabio@yahoo.it

[FaGal]

Se comunque hai firmato per la divulgazione dei tuoi dati, allora non dovresti subire alcuna ritenuta

[FaGal]

Swiss Banks No Longer Have It All Locked Up
www.latimes.com - By Haig Simonian, Financial Times - April 18, 2005

Generating new money in Switzerland has been like falling off a log for decades. Times change.


ZURICH, Switzerland — The names may differ, but the style remains the same. Marble halls, lifts that transport clients without pressing any buttons, anterooms and taciturn flunkies serving refreshments: Welcome to the world of Swiss private banking.

It is a model that has worked for decades, centuries even, as foreign potentates, politicians and the plain rich have sought a haven for their wealth.

But recently, behind the immaculate facades, signs have emerged that confidence may be slipping. Data are hard to find in an industry noted for discretion. But what evidence there is suggests that Switzerland, once a byword for private banking, is no longer casting its special spell.

The oldest and most traditional banks, such as Pictet and Lombard Odier Darier Hentsch in Geneva, still bear the names of their founding families. Tightly run by partners bearing unlimited liability, they are under no obligation to publish figures.

Others, such as Zurich's Julius Baer and Vontobel, or Basel-based Sarasin, must be more forthcoming. Though still dominated by founding families, their decisions to issue shares have required more transparency.

Deposits at Sarasin rose just 416 million Swiss francs last year, a mere 1.3% of the 30 billion francs under management. At Julius Baer, a relative upstart tracing its roots back only to 1890, clients actually withdrew 800 million francs, on balance. Nearby Vontobel attracted a net 200 million francs.

"It is difficult to generate new money in Switzerland," said Herbert Scheidt, Vontobel's chief executive.

Even UBS and Credit Suisse Group, the giants of Swiss banking, are struggling at home.

The reasons the flood of foreign money has turned into a trickle lie in tougher controls at the banks and changed attitudes among customers.

New laws on money laundering have eliminated Switzerland's former attractions as a destination for illicit, or just undeclared, money.

Declining personal tax rates in Europe have also reduced the fiscal incentives for stashing money in Swiss accounts. Italy, Belgium, France and Germany have even introduced amnesties to entice wealthy citizens to repatriate funds.

Holding money in Switzerland will become even less appealing after a savings tax on some assets takes effect in July.

Clients, meanwhile, have developed different priorities from the days when asset preservation sufficed. Portfolio performance has gained importance, as has cost consciousness. And not every private bank has delivered.

Moreover, financial pressures have multiplied. The Swiss Bankers' Assn. figures the additional staff and software needed to meet new compliance rules have cost hundreds of millions of francs. Rising customer expectations have also meant higher staffing standards; the days when charm and language skills were passports to a career in private banking are long gone.

But the new circumstances do not mean private banking is unattractive or unprofitable, just that the rules have changed.

Rather than going to Switzerland, clients are now seeking the same prestige and service closer to home. UBS, and, to a lesser extent, Credit Suisse, have adjusted by investing heavily in private banking networks in Europe and Asian financial centers, notably Singapore.

UBS is spending an estimated 1 billion francs on its European Wealth Management Initiative, with growth bolstered by acquisitions of private fund managers across the continent. But such investments are beyond the reach of smaller banks.

The changed circumstances have contributed to renewed rumors about consolidation, with attention focusing on Julius Baer, which surprised analysts with plans to eliminate family control by simplifying its share structure. Most analysts see the move as symptomatic of the new circumstances, and the wish of some family owners to cash in before it is too late.

For in spite of the new challenges, Swiss private banks still appeal to foreign groups keen to improve margins and add luster.