GM / GMAC 26 - Who wants to believe forever?

[viper71]

Originalmente inviato da lodovan

allora.. credo prima di tutto che si tratti di accettare una contropartita in cash adesso pari a 30 c sul dollaro, altrimenti non avrebbe senso (non eliminerebbero il problema)

Praticamente sarebbe una bancarotta, fatta eccezione per i fornitori e debitori.

No, quel clown che propone i 30 cent ai bondholder , ha proposto lo swap di debito con equity o debito con debito + equity.

Quindi, non ha parlato di soldi in cambio di bond, ma, lo ripeto, di riconversione di obbligazioni in azioni oppure in altre obbligazioni+azioni

[lodovan]

io incomincierei ad organizzarmi in gruppo per anticipare questa forzatura assurda che vogliono perpetuarci.

"a rigor di legge", non potrebbero forzarci ad accettare un concambio così svantaggioso..
e qui una osservazione: se in America avrebbero appunto l'appoggio di una proposta di legge, un aiuto statale.. che valore avrebbe qui in Europa?

Non penso che il famoso CZAR possa aver legislazione qui..
Insomma, so che a Shark questa piacerà, ma potremo insieme approfondire il discorso in maniera precisa ed ragionevole?

grazie a tutti per l'aiuto

[carlos7]

intanto la Svezia ha accordato nel giro di pochi giorni un aiuto importante per volvo e saab. ma oltre a questo ha irrimediabilmente ridicolizzato gli stati uniti d'america che con la loro assurda sceneggiata stanno dimostrando ancora una volta la loro immensa idiozia e l'infinita nullità della loro classe dirigente. ma è sempre così ci si perde in un bicchiere d'acqua.... detroit è il più piccolo dei problemi che hanno gli usa ma la loro stupidità è tale che non riescono neanche a evitare di essere ridicolazzati....... dalla svezia!!!!!!

[researcher]

Secondo me, dopo Lehman, ancora non hanno capito: devono cercare di sistemare i cocci non romperne altri......sono veramente penosi.....hanno permesso che si riducessero in queste condizioni e ora non si decidono nemmeno su quello che devono fare.........inaffidabili....peggio, molto peggio dei politici italiani......

[The Beast]

Prevedo giornatina pesante......:

CRISI: USA; AUTO,SENATO NON TROVA COMPROMESSO SU PIANO AIUTI

(ANSA-AFP) - WASHINGTON, 12 DIC - Il Senato americano non e'
riuscito a trovare un compromesso per votare il piano di
salvataggio (fino a 15 miliardi di dollari) delle industrie
automobilistiche. Lo ha annunciato giovedi' sera il leader della
maggioranza democratica Harry Reid.
''Non siamo riusciti a tagliare il traguardo'', ha dichiarato
Reid dopo lunghe ore passate a negoziare e compiere pressioni su
un nocciolo duro di senatori repubblicani che rifiutano di
salvare con fondi pubblici i tre colossi dell'auto, General
Motors, Chrysler e Ford.
''Potremmo passare tutta la notte, venerdi', sabato e
domenica e non ci riusciremmo'', ha ammesso Reid, aggiungendo:
''Ora ho paura a guardare Wall Street'' oggi.
Il piano era stato adottato mercoledi' sera a larga
maggioranza dalla Camera.(ANSA-AFP).

[samantaaa]

Originalmente inviato da researcher

Secondo me, dopo Lehman, ancora non hanno capito: devono cercare di sistemare i cocci non romperne altri......sono veramente penosi.....hanno permesso che si riducessero in queste condizioni e ora non si decidono nemmeno su quello che devono fare.........inaffidabili....peggio, molto peggio dei politici italiani......

è la solita pantomima per trattare fino all'ultimo, forse devono sfondare qualche resistenza creando un po' di panico
alla fine le salveranno
non so come (soprattutto per i loan)
imho

[Monitore]

Temo che non sia una sceneggiata.

[Jessica.]

Originalmente inviato da samantaaa

è la solita pantomima per trattare fino all'ultimo, forse devono sfondare qualche resistenza creando un po' di panico
alla fine le salveranno
non so come (soprattutto per i loan)
imho

....oppure questo fine settimana vanno in ch11......che forse e' l'unico modo per salvare l'attivita' industriale...

[shark2007]

Senate Rejects Auto Industry Bailout After Talks Fail
Last Updated: December 11, 2008 23:34 EST
By Nicholas Johnston and John Hughes

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- The Senate rejected a $14 billion bailout plan for U.S. automakers, in effect ending congressional efforts to aid General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which may run out of cash early next year.

“I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow,” Majority Leader Harry Reid said before the vote in Washington. “It’s not going to be a pleasant sight.”

The Bush administration will “evaluate our options in light of the breakdown in Congress,” spokesman Tony Fratto said.

The Senate thwarted the bailout plan when a bid to cut off debate on the bill the House passed yesterday fell short of the required 60 votes. The vote on ending the debate was 52 in favor, 35 against. Earlier, negotiations on an alternate bailout plan failed.

GM said in a statement, “We are deeply disappointed that agreement could not be reached tonight in the Senate despite the best bipartisan efforts. We will assess all of our options to continue our restructuring and to obtain the means to weather the current economic crisis.”

Reid said millions of Americans, “not only the autoworkers, but people who sell cars, car dealerships, people who work on cars,” will be affected. “It’s going to be a very, very bad Christmas for a lot of people as a result of what takes place here tonight.”

Asian stocks and U.S. index futures immediately began falling after Reid’s comments. The MSCI Asia Pacific Index slumped 2.2 percent to 86.13 as of 12:33 p.m. Tokyo time, while March futures on the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index slipped 3.4 percent.

‘Deja Vu’

“Remember when the first financial bailout bill failed” in Congress in late September, said Martin Marnick, head of equity trading at Helmsman Global Trading Ltd. in Hong Kong. “The markets in Asia started the slide. Deja vu, this looks like it’s happening again.” Congress approved a financial-rescue plan weeks later.

Senator George Voinovich, an Ohio Republican, urged the Bush administration to save the automakers by tapping the $700 billion bailout fund approved earlier this year for the financial industry.

“If this is the end, then I think they have to step in and do it -- it’s needed even though they don’t want to do it,” Voinovich said.

Connecticut Democrat Christopher Dodd, who helped lead the negotiations, said the final unresolved issue was a Republican demand that unionized autoworkers accept a reduction in wages next year, rather than later, to match those of U.S. autoworkers who work for foreign-owned companies, such as Toyota Motor Corp.

‘Saddened’

“More than saddened, I’m worried this evening about what we’re doing with an iconic industry,” Dodd said. “In the midst of deeply troubling economic times we are going to add to that substantially.”

Republican Bob Corker of Tennessee, who negotiated with Dodd, said, “I think there’s still a way to make this happen.”

Earlier today, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino warned that an agreement was necessary for the U.S. economy.

“We believe the economy is in such a weakened state right now that adding another possible loss of 1 million jobs is just something” it cannot “sustain at the moment,” Perino said.

Also earlier, South Dakota Republican John Thune suggested that if talks collapsed, the Bush administration might aid automakers with funds from the financial-rescue plan approved by Congress in October.
“I think that is where they go next,” Thune said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if they explore all options.” The Bush administration thus far has opposed that option, which was favored by Democrats.


Consueto teatrino politico di alcuni giorni ancora ... con inevitabile compromesso finale ...
Che altro potrebbe fare il Senato USA ... ?! ... Lasciare aumentare la disoccupazione di 2 mln ... far collassare di nuovo i mercati finanziari ... allungare i tempi della ripresa ... etc... e tutto questo mentre siamo a ridosso del Natale ...?!

[Jessica.]

Originalmente inviato da shark2007

Senate Rejects Auto Industry Bailout After Talks Fail
Last Updated: December 11, 2008 23:34 EST
By Nicholas Johnston and John Hughes

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- The Senate rejected a $14 billion bailout plan for U.S. automakers, in effect ending congressional efforts to aid General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which may run out of cash early next year.

“I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow,” Majority Leader Harry Reid said before the vote in Washington. “It’s not going to be a pleasant sight.”

The Bush administration will “evaluate our options in light of the breakdown in Congress,” spokesman Tony Fratto said.

The Senate thwarted the bailout plan when a bid to cut off debate on the bill the House passed yesterday fell short of the required 60 votes. The vote on ending the debate was 52 in favor, 35 against. Earlier, negotiations on an alternate bailout plan failed.

GM said in a statement, “We are deeply disappointed that agreement could not be reached tonight in the Senate despite the best bipartisan efforts. We will assess all of our options to continue our restructuring and to obtain the means to weather the current economic crisis.”

Reid said millions of Americans, “not only the autoworkers, but people who sell cars, car dealerships, people who work on cars,” will be affected. “It’s going to be a very, very bad Christmas for a lot of people as a result of what takes place here tonight.”

Asian stocks and U.S. index futures immediately began falling after Reid’s comments. The MSCI Asia Pacific Index slumped 2.2 percent to 86.13 as of 12:33 p.m. Tokyo time, while March futures on the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index slipped 3.4 percent.

‘Deja Vu’

“Remember when the first financial bailout bill failed” in Congress in late September, said Martin Marnick, head of equity trading at Helmsman Global Trading Ltd. in Hong Kong. “The markets in Asia started the slide. Deja vu, this looks like it’s happening again.” Congress approved a financial-rescue plan weeks later.

Senator George Voinovich, an Ohio Republican, urged the Bush administration to save the automakers by tapping the $700 billion bailout fund approved earlier this year for the financial industry.

“If this is the end, then I think they have to step in and do it -- it’s needed even though they don’t want to do it,” Voinovich said.

Connecticut Democrat Christopher Dodd, who helped lead the negotiations, said the final unresolved issue was a Republican demand that unionized autoworkers accept a reduction in wages next year, rather than later, to match those of U.S. autoworkers who work for foreign-owned companies, such as Toyota Motor Corp.

‘Saddened’

“More than saddened, I’m worried this evening about what we’re doing with an iconic industry,” Dodd said. “In the midst of deeply troubling economic times we are going to add to that substantially.”

Republican Bob Corker of Tennessee, who negotiated with Dodd, said, “I think there’s still a way to make this happen.”

Earlier today, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino warned that an agreement was necessary for the U.S. economy.

“We believe the economy is in such a weakened state right now that adding another possible loss of 1 million jobs is just something” it cannot “sustain at the moment,” Perino said.

Also earlier, South Dakota Republican John Thune suggested that if talks collapsed, the Bush administration might aid automakers with funds from the financial-rescue plan approved by Congress in October.
“I think that is where they go next,” Thune said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if they explore all options.” The Bush administration thus far has opposed that option, which was favored by Democrats.


Consueto teatrino politico di alcuni giorni ancora ... con approvazione finale ...
Che altro potrebbero fare ... ?! ... Lasciare aumentare la disoccupazione di 2 mln ... far collassare i mercati finanziari ... allungare i tempi della ripresa ... etc... e tutto questo mentre siamo a ridosso del Natale ...?!

...sei arrivato a scomodare anche Babbo Natale..??
...azz!! questi thread ormai hanno solo il tuo nick!!
..